COVID-19 has killed nearly 20,000 Illinoisans. And for the family left behind, rituals of mourning have been curtailed or prevented. We talk about saying goodbye in a pandemic with the Rev. Marshall Hatch, pastor of the New Mount Pilgrim Missionary Baptist Church in Chicago's West Garfield neighborhood; he and his community have been hard-hit by COVID. We also spoke with SIU-Edwardsville Prof. Jocelyn DeGroot, who studies death and grieving, and is the author of The New York Times op-ed, "What Should You Say When Someone is Grieving?" And Kevin Rafferty, president of Rafferty Funeral Home in Moline.