Episode 98: Visiting with Rachel Shore of Danville and her story, “The Stiletto Secret”

                                    SSPP ep. 98 RACHEL SHORE
 
Our guest today on The She Said Project Podcast has had a lifelong exploration of identity and perception. She Said Danville 2024 speaker Rachel Long drops by to chat with Jenette and Kerry about her story, "The Stiletto Secret" while encouraging listeners to embrace their unique qualities and challenge assumptions about others.
 
ANNOUNCER  00:00  Raising women's voices one story at a time. Welcome to The She Said Project Podcast.
[Music: The She Said Project Podcast Theme]
 
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JENETTE JURCZYK  00:25  Okay, Kerry, I'm just, every time we start this show, it feels super cheesy, so I'm just gonna play it cool today, like, Hey
 
KERRY ROSSOW  00:32  I go hey
 
JENETTE  00:33  You're joining us on The She Said Project Podcast.
 
KERRY  00:36  Well, you go ahead. I am so excited about today, because our guest is someone that I didn't meet, but I was in the audience and
 
JENETTE  00:44  You were fan girling, weren't you?
 
KERRY  00:45  I was fangirling. Not only did I love her content, but as a fellow almost six footer, it so spoke to me in every way. And I have girls that are one that's almost six foot and one that's over six foot, so all of it, I was shaking my head so hard the whole time, and like, fast, right, slow clapping the whole time, and I wear heels all the time. It was just like all of it.
 
JENETTE  01:09  She's gonna love hearing how much her story you were able to relate to. So let's just bring her right into the conversation. Rachel Shore from Danville, Illinois, thank you for joining us here on The She SaidProject Podcast.
 
RACHEL SHORE  01:19  Thank you guys so much for having me.
 
KERRY  01:21  Okay, so tell me this. How did you get connected with us?
 
JENETTE  01:24  How did that happen?
 
RACHEL  01:25  Jenette reached out to me randomly. It was a Facebook message. When we met, she let me know that there were several people that had reached out and said, if you're looking for stories, reach out to Rachel. And so she did away, yeah,
 
JENETTE  01:36  We met at the coffee shop, Mad Goat.
 
RACHEL  01:38  Mad Goat.
 
JENETTE  01:39  Shout out to Mad Goat, we were totally in sync, talking about the power of storytelling. And I remember in that conversation you shared with me you were very vulnerable right away. You said, I don't think I see the world like other people. I believe in perspective and I believe in storytelling. It was literally like you were describing our mission at The She Said Project, how storytelling can really, really empower people and build a relationship and build connection. I didn't know that I was gonna ask you to be in the show in that first conversation. That wasn't the original, original plan, but you were saying all the magic words. I think it just happened. It was like a match made in heaven.
 
KERRY  02:12  Okay? Another question I have, because I was thinking how powerful your story was to me and for my own girls. Tell me about your family. You have at least one daughter, right?
 
RACHEL  02:15  Yeah, I have a nine year old daughter and a two and a half (year old) little boy,
 
KERRY  02:16  And is your daughter proving to be in the tall girl club? Is she gonna?
 
RACHEL  02:28  I don't know, honestly, like she's been really average height until this point. I think this year she's getting a little taller in her cheer class. She's really wants to be a flyer, and I think she's realizing now she's a little bit too tall to be a flyer, so it's interesting, kind of see her go through that with her height, but it, hers didn't come on as early as mine did, like she hasn't sprouted as quickly as I did
 
JENETTE  02:51  So did you find your height to be a limitation or a blessing when you were growing up?
 
RACHEL  02:55  When I was younger, I viewed it as a limitation. It makes you feel like an outsider if you're different and it's a difference that you can't really control, right? I think when we're kids, we don't really have the ability to navigate broader, bigger perspectives. And so when I was a child, it absolutely felt like a limitation.
 
JENETTE  03:12  What I love that Rachel did is she took this limitation and the perspective she had grown up, and as we love there's a defining moment, a moment in time, where she flipped the switch and she did this experiment, and that's what she talks about in her story. So we're gonna hear about Rachel's experiment, and then what her perspective is on being tall and being freaking fabulous in the world today. And so we're gonna enjoy her story from That's What She Said Danville. This is Rachel Shore, live on stage with her story, "The Stiletto Secret."
 
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RACHEL SHORE  03:12  So I want to talk to you guys about something very important: my shoes.
 
03:48  And that's because I believe perspective is one of the most powerful forms of currency on the planet. It's what governs our every behavior and belief we hold of ourselves, our world and each other.
 
03:58  So let's run this a mile back. I did not grow up in a happy home. I grew up in a war zone actually. There was no love, no hugs, definitely no consistency, but there was a lot of running to make sure I kept the weight off. At home, my name was only ever screamed, but then at school, it was rarely ever used. It was Jolly Green, Bigfoot, linebacker lady, you know, that's just what happens when you're 5' 10" in fifth grade, you got a wingspan wider than all the boys at school.
 
04:25  At school it was always something. It was my freckles, my interests, my height. But then at home, it was just the fact that I was breathing. And you know, when you ask kids what their favorite superpower is or what they would want, right? If those are real, they tell you cool things like flying or moving things with their mind. I used to say I wanted the invisibility cloak from Harry Potter, which is not really a superpower, I suppose, but it is what I would always say. I used to Google if that cloak was real on more than one occasion, which is so sad, especially as a mom with a daughter to think of any child, much less being that former child, whose magic genie wish was to disappear.
 
04:26  During my last few years of high school, I was bouncing back and forth across the country. I went from this school to that school back to this school. It was during this period of my life that I found out Blake Lively, the actress, is 5' 10" -- like me. And then I saw a photo of her wearing five inch heels on a red carpet, and at 17, I remember how powerful that was to see somebody doing something I thought I would never be allowed to do. And what that did was adapt my understanding of what might be possible for me, so much so that I had this brilliant idea I could force myself over criticism and rejection by forcing myself to wear heels for 30 days, I even hung a little spreadsheet using stickers on the wall. And I went to the mall that night and bought my first pair of heels. They're little, one inch white wedges. I put them on at the register, but she see. I didn't realize the store where I bought them was carpeted. And so I got to the open part of the mall and heard the below my feet, yeah, but then by the time I got to the parking lot, I realized the acoustics changed again when my heels went to concrete. So hear the clicking, but it was muffled.
 
05:07  And what I wrote down in my journal at 17 that night was it heels are kind of like life. Some people are like carpet. They'll do anything in their power, try to silence you, stuff you down and drown you out. Other people are like marble. There will be many more of those who get a sense for your heart and choose to be with it and the power that harmony echoes through the stratosphere. But of course, there will always be those that are also like concrete, doing the bob and weave. They're all in on you. They're not all out either. At the end of that first 30 days, I realized the criticism didn't change. I mean, I went from Big Foot to twinkle toes, which is, you know, but I wasn't able to change anybody's perception of me, but I was able to change my perception of me.
 
06:56  So I reset the timer. 30 days, another 30 days, another 30 days, to get from one inch heels to two inch to three inch to bow, and I stopped at four. But that had nothing to do with criticism that came down to regular old grace and balance. And I did this for so long that wearing heels just became a habit in more ways than one actually, this little experiment or activity of self hazing, if you prefer, went on to inspire the foundation of research for every single study I conducted in grad school and beyond on the construction of identity and perception. And as an adult, I love being tall. I had never once had to ask for help getting a bowl off the top shelf. Dusting? I mean, I don't do that, but if I was into that kind of thing, I can reach most ceiling fans by myself. But also as an adult, one of my heaviest forms of criticism, for those who only briefly met her, having spent a lot of time with me as well, she's so superficial. She's all about image.
 
07:51  On a lighter note, I would like to tell you about my favorite study I ever conducted. It was inspired by my 17 year old self, and for this study, I hijacked a bunch of professors' grad students. For two days, I taught lectures back to back to back, back to back.
 
07:51  You know, I think it comes back to perspective. I've always believed that we only have the ability to care about things we deeply know and understand. To deeply know is to deeply care. And I believe one of the biggest problems in our world today and for a long time, is not that our world lacks love, is that we lack the understanding that produces that love. And the reason we lack that understanding is because we fail to exercise our curiosity, to act with integrity and intent to get to know who people truly are, takes time. Sometimes, a lot you don't know what people are going through. Opinions? Assumptions? Doesn't take time at all.
 
08:44  On the first day I showed up, I was wearing a pink leather skirt, frilly shirt, hair curled, lots of makeup, and I was presenting very warm, a lot of animation, a lot of gesture. And I was ascribing to a traditional feminine expectation. Second day I showed up, I'm presenting more masculine. I'm wearing all black hair pulled back at very narrow gestures, very limited in session, and I asked the professors to distribute my survey after I had left asking lots of questions. What does she do for a living? How much money does she make later on? Likability, leader, inaudible, things like that. When we got the surveys back and we began to code through them, we realized that we could have just left them sorted by date, everybody answered in line with what they saw.
 
09:29  The first day when I showed up wearing pink, is that I was a school teacher, a counselor, a social worker, which historically had been more women inaudible industry or sectors of industry, and they liked me. They didn't think I was smart.
 
09:40  Second day, I was wearing all black, they put down they thought I was a business leader, a manager, an entrepreneur. I rated very low on likability. I knew they were not going to be calling me anytime soon to hang out, but they would call me for advice, and they would listen to me because they did rank me very high. Inaudible. The same lecture, same slides, same me. Different day, different outfit.
 
10:09  And I was able to form conclusions about my study. Immediately it was obvious what has taken a long, long, and I mean long time is to accept the results of not only my study, but the countless others conducted by those also participating in the study, research, lifestyle, all pointing to the same thing: There's nothing we can do.
 
10:35  There's nothing we can say, there's nothing we can wear, there's nothing we can become. The majority of people go by what they see. The majority of the world is not interested in getting to know what they don't know, and they already believe they know it all. And I know that, I think I've always known that it was accepting it that was hard, it's not acceptable. But I know that my color coordinated outfits will never do justice the worst power of my heart and mind, just like I know I will continue freaking everybody out with my left field abstract out of the box approach to literally everything. But you see, those are, those are my favorite parts of me, things I love about me the most, and those tend to be the things that other people also love about me the most, after they realized that this high speed, big vision roller coaster is, in fact, connected to a set of very sturdy tracks.
 
11:31  You see, I don't believe that we have the ability to form a deep understanding of ourselves within human condition without that automatically updating the depth which we are able to understand and see others. I think the depth of one signals the depth of the other may even determine it. So I know that there's more to me than what can be seen, but I also know there's more to carpets than I can see standing here in my heels. There's a past I know nothing about, there's pain I know nothing about. There's also potential, ability, possibility and skills and I know nothing about, and that's what I choose to look for in people and in this world, regardless how people look at me. Because I believe we never, ever get what we see, what you see is never what you get. What we get is what we take the time to listen for, what we take the time to look for. That's what I look for. And as far as my shoes, well, I guess you could say a three inch adjustment in perspective, sometimes it's all you need.
 
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KERRY  12:42  Okay, love that. Love everything about that. I sent this to my girls, and I remember thinking once in high school, someone said, I wish I could be as tall as you. And I was in such a state of shock, because I had not seen it as a great asset. And then I realized, like all the ways it had served me, I was in sports, and it had served me there. There were just all these things that then it just changed the perspective. And I thought, oh my gosh, it made me think of your experiment, and how it's all perspective and often not based in reality, but based on what we see and assume to be true. So did you get this story right away, or did it take a while for you to land on what you were going to talk about?
 
RACHEL  13:21  Because I was already writing a book about this experience, I think I had a little bit of a leg up on how I drafted it. I think the hardest part was condensing so many years, because the experiment took place in different phases. So one part started in high school, one part began in college, and then there was my research experiment that I did in college, and so being able to condense that in a way that it relayed the message, it relayed the moral in eight minutes, that was certainly a challenge for me. Because, I mean, when you're writing a big project about it, you know, it's harder to take things out than to just, you know, leave them in.
 
JENETTE  13:58  And how do you feel about your height and your heels today. What size heels are you wearing by the way?
 
RACHEL  14:03  Um, these ones are, these little babies are four. Yeah.
 
JENETTE  14:07  Four. Just four inches. Yeah, just four.
 
RACHEL  14:09  Yes, I love being tall. Shoes are my favorite accessory, and I don't know that that would be the case if it weren't for this experiment, but I draw a lot of meaning from it and a lot of inspiration from it.
 
JENETTE  14:19  I love how there was the wearing heels to empower yourself, to own your height, but then all of those layers of discovery, where you heard the clicking sound and you made you know, you came up with all these metaphors for heels and life and the people that you're going to come across and how some people are going to try to join you out, and some people are going to cheer you on. I don't even know if I remember telling you this or not, but I have a vivid memory where clicking of heels comes back to me every time, whenever I hear heels clicking. I remember when I was a young teenager, I used to babysit, and whenever I would get to the house, and I remember the parents would be getting ready to leave, and I would, you know, have the kids and, you know, feeding them dinner. Getting ready with a snack, and I would hear the clicking down the hall. And to me, that was the signal that that was a grown up thing. The grown ups are getting ready to go out whenever. You know, that's what that sound does to me. And I, I think I forget that I'm a grown up now. And I mean, I don't really heals that often, but that clicking sound, I mean, it takes me back to that moment. Does it give you guys any other memories? Click, click, click, click,
 
RACHEL  15:19  Yeah, to be honest, though, I didn't, I didn't start this as a way to empower myself, the phase where I wore, you know, those little, tiny one inch heels, those little wedges in high school. It wasn't because I wanted to empower myself. It was, you know, when you just get so sick of being down on yourself or criticizing yourself and that voice in your head and you're just so tired of it, you know, it came more out of desperation than motivation. And, you know, at 17, it's probably not the most logical thing, but when you're that age, I mean, what is but it was something that, you know, I committed to. I have a gritty personality that I was just I didn't want to feel that way anymore, and so I knew that I was afraid of criticism. I knew that I was I was tired of feeling different and tall and as an outsider, and I want to do something about it. And at 17, that is what I came up with. I don't think I recognized how profound that was in that moment until you know, you're going through your journals in college and and you're kind of feeling that way again, you know, and it's for different reasons, and it's like, man, all right, we're going to increase the heel height. We're just going to we're going to crank it, baby, and we're going to do it. And so I think I'm pretty good about getting myself out and away from from comfort. I think I do, I do a pretty good job of pushing myself in that way.
 
KERRY  16:29  And did it change or become a stronger feeling for you? When you became a mom like that, you wanted to to show be a good example and model.
 
RACHEL  16:39  Yeah, I think when I became a mom, I think what became really important is not really necessarily my experiment, but going back to why this experiment was necessary. So what kids go through, bullying is still a thing. Everybody has hard stuff that they go through, but there are certain things that kids shouldn't have to go through. So I think that's kind of where my mission is now, is, what can we do about those situations? How can we correct those so that kids aren't having to do things like this at 17?
 
JENETTE  17:07  Now, I've seen recently, you've been pretty bold and brave. You've been going out on social media and doing some live videos and sharing more nuggets of wisdom from Rachel Shore, what are those goals? What is that sharing doing for you or for your community.
 
RACHEL  17:21  Well, I mean, as you and I have talked about before, one of my favorite things, but my favorite hobbies in the entire world, is presenting in public speaking. I love speaking. This was not my first speaking engagement that I did this year. It's definitely the biggest one, but we did do a couple other speaking engagements. We're able to raise some funds for different student programs, different organizations. So that was great. And this kind of came along at the perfect time. I had just done a 10x writers workshop that I was participating in, and then along comes Jenette, and she's like, Hey, let's just throw you on a stage. I realized I think I learn best by teaching, and I feel like I have a lot to give in that space. But I'm also very interested in directing and building these stories through a different medium than just writing or speaking, and being able to tell that through video and video production. And it's been really fun. It's definitely a learning thing. But again, it's one of those things where you just kind of have to jump in, and it's not always comfortable, and you don't, you don't know what you're doing. I don't think anybody knows what they're doing when they start out, but it's about having fun and doing things that light your fire, fill your cup, and are fun for you. And this is, this is that it's talking about things that I think are important, that I think can be helpful, and it's good for me too.
 
KERRY  18:26  And what has the feedback been since you did the show?
 
RACHEL  18:29  I think that my favorite thing is having women come up to me and say, That hit me. I think that's the reason why we do it. I think that's part of you know, why Jenette does that. I mean, the worst thing in the world is feeling like you're alone in something. And for a long time, even into college, when I was doing these studies and doing this experiment, I felt like I was alone in it. And there's feeling different, and there's feeling outsider, and then there's also feeling alone and outsider. And I just I hate the thought of other people having to go through that, and so just kind of showing up in that way, even if it's not comfortable, and I think by handing off the lessons that we've learned that heals some part of us. So I think it's good to verbalize and vocalize those things in a way that is empowered, in a way that is it is raw, maybe not as perfect or wrapped up in a bow, but in a way that's sincere. And I think that's what resonates with people.
 
JENETTE  19:20  Let's talk about your experiment for just a moment when you presented to these college classes, right? And you gave the same talk one way, where you were dressed in pink and you curled your hair and you were bubbly, and then you did the same material, and you chose to present in a more solemn way, in darker colors, and you were trying to test the audience. And then what you revealed in your story was the end result. Nothing's going to change. People will pass judgment based on what they see. At first, it almost felt like a letdown, like a disappointment, like, that's it. I did it. I did this way, and I did it this way, and they just proved that that theory is right. But if you stop for a moment, and I think as you continued you kind of felt this, knowing this, knowing this information, gives you power. Because if people are going to judge you based on what they see, you know that's first impression, you are in control of how you present yourself. And so if there is a result that you desire, well maybe you start here, you know, show up the way you want to show up in the world, and own that perspective.
 
RACHEL  20:21  Yeah, I think it gives a sense of liberation when you know that that is the outcome and that people are going to do that, and it's not just about height, it's not just about what you wear, it's not just about that, it's about anything. There's a certain level of liberation and understanding that you can't control that, and it makes you reach the point where it's like, why would I try? Why would I try to control something that I absolutely cannot control, and something that I did leave out of this speech because, again, we only had eight minutes. Is at the end of those surveys I did put on there that if they had questions about the topic, content, anything about my background, they could email me. And what was very interesting about that as well is that given the opportunity to learn more or to exercise their curiosity, that was not taken, and it really shows that the way that we are so quick to form these assumptions or these ideals of people. I think everybody experiences that to some degree.
 
KERRY  21:05  That was another thing that I thought was beautiful about the words that you said, because, like Jenette said, when I was listening to it, I was like (exhales) and then I thought, well, hold on, sis. I do it all the time. We do it every day. Like you meet somebody and you're making rapid fire assumptions of who they are, and so not only for how people perceive me, it really has made me like, stop and think like I'm doing it too. And I need to be aware of putting people in a box that I have based on a 32nd meeting with them, right?
 
RACHEL  21:34  And that at the very end of this speech, I think that was one of the important things that I wanted to acknowledge, because when you study perspective and you study the construction of identity, construction of identity, it changes you. It changes the way that you see things. I mean, it's not something that you can help. You know, once you see certain things or learn to understand certain things, you can't unsee them. You can't understand them. So what I have recognized, too, is that even looking back and to my home life, the way that I grew up, or the the kids, and looking back and realizing, you know what, yes, I was 17, but they were just kids. Just kids too. Is that underneath those people that are like carpet, they try to drown out your, you know, the beat of your drum and stuff like that, they have something going on too. They have heartache. They have pain, but not just that. They also have, you know, potential and purpose that we know nothing about. So even looking back, you know, there's not there's not animosity, there's not grudge, there's not blame. You know, it's a recognition of what is the root of the problem. We need to encourage and increase our ability to expand our perspective. We need to encourage kids from a young age to embrace difference, to teach that as a normal thing, not as something that we wait till later.
 
JENETTE  22:40  One of my takeaways, and I don't know that I put it all together until we're revisiting your story. If you had grown up fully accepted, fully loved, fully popular, everything went your way. You came from the right family, lived in the right neighborhood, you wouldn't have had any reason to explore these things. And so sometimes we face struggles and challenges that urge us to find something different. And so if it weren't for the discomfort, you would not have discovered the stiletto secret. If it weren't for the discomfort, you would not have done this experiment to see where does this really exist, and knowledge is power, right? And if I remember correctly. Rachel told me she is a research nerd, like research is your job.
 
RACHEL  23:25  It is. It is.
 
JENETTE JURCZYK  23:27  And so I think you know when we when we say, everything happens for a reason, but it is because of who you are and what you experienced that this became important to you. And so you know you wouldn't be who you are today without all of it. Right?
 
RACHEL  23:38  What's funny that you mentioned that one of the quote that's in my stiletto secret book that will soon be coming
 
JENETTE  23:42  Coming soon, coming soon,
 
RACHEL  23:43  is that I believe, after going through this and other things in my life, that the mark we are meant to leave on the world is born from the scars that the world left on us. And I think that's where that comes from.
 
JENETTE  23:54  I'm sorry, can you say that again for the people in the back?
 
RACHEL  23:57  The mark we are meant to leave in this world is born from the scars that the world left on us. You know, our burdens open us up to our purpose, the things that we go through, if we can intentionally learn and grow from them, that becomes our platform, that becomes our place where we can really interject and intercept in the world and make a difference. So for me, it's with perspective. It's challenging the assumption of identity, especially starting in childhood all the way up through adulthood.
 
KERRY  24:23  Well, thank you for coming today, but also thank you for getting up and saying yes and telling that story. And I know if it touched me and made me not just feel like the tall girl, solidarity and understanding of what you were talking about, it was so much more than that, and I loved hearing it. I'm sure it resonated with lots of other people, too, for different reasons.
 
JENETTE  24:42  I wish I had caught this earlier, like, today was the tall girl show. Like we should have started with that instead of my chill. I'm pretty sure every girl who grew up taller than the rest of her class ahead above guilty. That's the wrong word. I'm not guilty. I just was, yeah, head above the class, like there's all that insecurity that comes with it, until you're ready to embrace
 
KERRY  24:59  Whatever it is. My sisters, even though I'm in the tall group, my sisters are all like little Polly Pockets. And my one sister was like, you know, her whole teenage year was like, someday I'll reach 100 pounds. And she, I remember her saying, like, people feel because I'm petite, people feel that it's okay to be like, You're so skinny, you're so teeny, you're so this. And so it's like across the board, whether you're a teeny gal, a tall gal, whatever it is, own it. Rock it. It doesn't define us.
 
JENETTE  25:25  Who defines what normal is? Who defines what perfect is?
 
KERRY  25:29  Oh, Lord, not me.
 
JENETTE  25:30  I mean, it doesn't exist, right?
 
RACHEL  25:32  Yeah, and it's, it's so interesting, though, being in this phase of life, because and talking about this now, when you're so far removed from feeling that, because it's been years since, like, so many years that I have disliked my height. You know, it was my early 20s when I just like, Okay, this is great. This is fantastic. I'm very happy to be tall. So to be talking about it so far later and looking back on it as a memory, a memory of what happened, but also a memory of how I felt, it feels like looking back at another person. And I think that's a testament to how we grow, how we change, and the power of perspective.
 
JENETTE  26:05  And let's give a shout out to Blake Lively. Blake, if you're listening, if you're listening to The She Said Project Podcast, like, look what you inspired in Rachel. And now Rachel gets to take that inspiration and go and make so many more women feel powerful about their height and all the things that they are. And so Blake, keep wearing those heels. We love you, girl, but when you're ready to tell your story, you call us. Okay, right, right. So the Danville show, I mean, what a beautiful community. I felt like it was the right time to launch That's What She Said Danville. And I just feel like there's so much more possibility there that we just get to go forward and explore from this day forward.
 
RACHEL  26:41  Yeah, we had such a fun group, such a great group.
 
KERRY  26:44  It translated. You could tell, you could really tell
 
RACHEL  26:47 We had so much fun, like, it was so much fun.
 
JENETTE  26:49  I know I miss these girls, really. And so I called Rachel. I'm like, hey, hey, you want to represent Danville on the podcast? She's like, I got you. And she's here in person, which is always a special treat when we're here, because we do speak to a lot of our She Said, sisters on the phone. So thank you for driving in. I heard there was a little bit of traffic out there.
 
RACHEL  27:06  There was.
 
JENETTE  27:09  You know, we're here in central Illinois and growing quickly. So if you are a She Said fan, or That's What She Said supporter. I just want to say thank you for your support of our shows, our live shows. This podcast wouldn't be possible if it were not for Illinois Public Media donating their studio space and the support we received from Sterling Wealth Management and Health Alliance and Carle. Carle Health is another growing entity here in the Midwest. It takes a village, let me tell you, but it's worth it, the work we get to do Kerry, it's pretty worth it.
 
KERRY  27:36  It's a pretty sweet gig.
 
JENETTE  27:37  So thank you, friends for allowing us to do this amazing work, and we'll see you next time on The She Said Project Podcast.
 
KERRY  27:43  Over and out.
 
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